向杨的微博：向杨Alan
微信公众号：xy88chicago
细心的读者可能有所察觉，本人对奥巴马有过不少论述。作为理性粉的我，不仅教过奥巴马的回忆录《我父亲的梦想》，每经海德公园Valois必点他最爱的“纽约牛排&鸡蛋”（N.Y Steak and Eggs），还时常冒着芝加哥南部匪帮流弹的危险，到95街的三一教堂（Trinity United Church of Christ）实地考察奥巴马的信仰足迹，拜访给他主婚的赖特牧师（Jeremiah Wright Jr。）。今天就来聊聊奥巴马的幽默感。
奥巴马演讲一流，也抖得一手好包袱，火候时机拿捏自如，是名副其实的段子手。一年一度的白宫记者答谢晚宴，奥巴马的段子都会风靡一时。然而你也许会问，这些段子都是他自己写的吗？当然不是，这背后是一个团队。曾为奥巴马四次晚宴撰稿的幕后段子主笔大卫·李特（David Litt）就是其中之一。这次关于幽默感的对话，在我问大卫·李特无果之后，主持人阿克塞尔罗德（David Axelrod）又追加一问。李特于是详细道出白宫晚宴的幕后流程。
现如今，视主流媒体为“人民公敌”的特朗普或将再次缺席今年4月28号的晚宴。也许是特朗普习惯了推特发文，也许是他怕记者席下面起哄。Anyway，下面我们还是重温一下奥巴马，欣赏他2016年的段子，再点击羊说制作的对话，了解段子手的幕后。
对话视频
大卫·李特（David Litt）毕业于耶鲁大学，曾担任Yale Record的主编。2011年，年仅24岁的大卫进入白宫，担任资深演讲稿撰稿人。奥巴马四次白宫记者答谢晚宴，由他作为段子主笔。
David Litt & David Axelrod on Humor
采访：10/2/2017
时长：4：49
01
YANG： Hi， my name is Yang， a graduate student in sociology。 From what I can get from reading Obama‘s memoir， Dreams From My Father， a likely candidate for inspiring his humorous element might be his maternal grandfather， Stanley Dunham， being a wildcard， very forgiving， and writing poetry。 So from your experience working with Obama on jokes， who might have played a bigger role？ How has Obama’s sense of humor and his approach to using humor been shaped by his family？
向杨：你好，我叫向杨，社会学博士生。我从奥巴马的回忆录《我父亲的梦想》读到，激发了他身上幽默风趣一面的人可能是他的外公，史坦利·邓纳姆。老头子性情不羁，宽宏大量，还会写诗。就你辅助奥巴马写段子的经历来看，谁是那个对他幽默感影响更大的人呢？奥巴马的幽默感以及他对幽默风趣的拿捏受到了哪些来自家庭的影响？
LITT： You know， I have no idea [LAUGHTER] just because I feel like I entered—you know， it‘s interesting。 Like different people， of course， in the administration， entered the world of Barack Obama at different times。 So， you know， I started off working for Valerie [Jarrett]， who has known the Obamas forever。 You know， obviously， when you met Barack Obama， he was a very different Barack Obama than when I discovered Barack Obama。 But， for me， because I was sort of late to the game in that sense， I think by that point， one of the interesting things was that he had a very clear and consistent vision for the country on the serious speeches， and also a pretty consistent sense of humor for the humorous speeches。 So I’m not really sure。
李特：说实话，我不知道。[笑] 可能是我进入这个圈子——这很有趣。显然，就像不同的人，在不同的时候走进了奥巴马的世界。我最开始是为瓦莱丽·贾勒特工作，她算奥巴马的老相识了。显然，你们所碰到的奥巴马，和我所知道的那个奥巴马判若两人。但是，对我而言，由于我更靠后才加入，所以这么看来，至少有一点很有趣，就是他对美国的看法清晰分明且前后连贯，这在他的严肃演讲中有充分体现；在幽默演讲中，他的幽默感也发挥稳定。具体原因我也说不上。
YANG： Thank you。
向杨：谢谢你。
LITT： Sorry I can‘t help you more！
李特：不好意思，我没帮到你什么。
02
AXELROD： Let me ask you about humor and the—he obviously was very good at it， appreciated a good joke， knew how to deliver a good joke。 What was the key to making those presidential speeches where he had to be funny work？
阿克塞尔罗德：那我就幽默这事问一下你吧。奥巴马显然很有幽默感，能明白笑点在哪儿，也抖得一手好包袱。在那些需要幽一默的总统演讲中，起到这个效果的关键是什么？
LITT： So there were a few things， I think， that were essential to a good set of jokes for one of the Correspondents‘ Dinners。 The first one was that we had a really large， talented team of people。 So most of the speeches that we would do in the White House—if I was writing a speech about infrastructure， I would hold the pen on the speech， the chief speechwriter—either Jon Favreau or Cody Keenan—would edit the speech， and then it would be seen by the President， usually the night before。
李特：我觉得这里有几点很重要，特别是要在白宫记者晚宴上产生笑果。第一就是我们有一个特别庞大且有才的团队。所以我们在白宫做的大部分演讲 — 如果我正在撰写关于基础设施的演讲，我持笔演讲稿，然后首席演讲稿撰稿人 — Jon Favreau或是Cody Keenan 会编辑讲稿，最后，总统通常会在前一天晚上看到讲稿。
For jokes， it was closer to having a writer‘s room， where， you know， I would be writing jokes myself， but also after Lovett moved to Hollywood， he would still be writing jokes from there— you know， I think in the book， I sort of out you as the originator of these long， pun-filled email chains that would go around [AXELROD LAUGHS]， and we’d have some comedy writers from Hollywood as well， who would pitch jokes。
就写段子而言，这更像是有一个写作小空间，在那里我会自己打磨段子。但在洛维特搬到好莱坞之后，他依然会写点笑料笑话过来。在我的书中， 我把你当作是源头，引发了这条长长的、充满双关语的电邮转发链。[阿克塞尔罗德：笑]，我们也会有一些来自好莱坞的喜剧作家，他们也会带点笑料过来。
So we would end up with about 600 jokes， I would guess， before—that would come into my inbox at some point during the years when I was responsible for making sure that everything went the way it was supposed to。 And of those， I would guess 40 would go to the president for the first time， about a week beforehand。 So that was the first part of it， was just writing so many jokes， knowing that most of them will be not quite right， but there‘s no secret to it—you just do it over and over and over again and you see which ones work。
所以，我想最后我们会写大约600个段子 ——这些笑话会发到我的邮箱里，在某个时刻我会收到它们，我要负责的是确保一切都按照计划进行。其中，我想大概有40个段子会直接发给总统，在白宫记者晚宴前一周的样子。所以这是第一点，就是试着写很多段子，我们也知道它们中大部分都不太对头，但最后也没有什么法宝。我们只是不停地反复地尝试，看笑话能不能把人逗乐。
The second thing that I think was very impressive about President Obama‘s sense of humor， in addition to his timing， which was really good—was that he， I think he had a clear sense， enough self-awareness to say， “This is my public persona， and here’s how I can play off it a little bit。” [AXELROD： Mhm。] So he didn‘t do jokes—you know， there was one or two times when I would read a joke or he would a joke that we’d written， and he would say， “That would be funny if a comedian did it，” which is like a polite way of saying， “Let‘s not use that joke， please，” and then he’d get rid of it。 But for the most part， he was doing jokes that were based on him kind of playing himself， and I think if you don‘t have that self-awareness to know what’s funny when you say it and what‘s not， it doesn’t work。
第二点是，奥巴马总统的幽默感之所以令人印象深刻，除了他能准确把握抖包袱的时机外， 还因为他能清醒地意识到：“我的公众形象示既然如此，那我可以在这里调侃一下。 [阿克塞尔罗德：嗯。] 有些段子他不会去讲。有那么几次我读一个笑话，或者他和我一起读到我们合写的笑话，然后说，“这要产生笑果，得是喜剧演员才行。”这就其实是在礼貌地说：“我们不要用这个梗了。”然后他就不会用这个。但大多数情况下，他是自己尝试把自己当作那个梗来讲段子。我认为，如果你没有这种清醒的自我公众形象的意识，知道说什么好笑，什么不好笑，那就学不来奥巴马了。
And then I think， I mean， we‘ve talked about it a few times just in the last minute—but I do think that fact that he had a really strong sense of comic timing and also of how to write a joke。 I mean， I would get back the edits that he would make on the day of the correspondence dinner。 So you know， usually we would have our final run-through at let’s say noon on that Saturday， and then he would go—he would read it one more time and make handwritten changes， and the last thing that I would really do before the speech was enter those changes into the computer for a final draft。 And the edits were always really precise in a way that you generally don‘t see from people who aren’t writing comedy。 I mean， most of the time， the difference between saying， “This， but that，” and “This， however that，” doesn‘t make a difference in a speech。 But for jokes， it can be the difference between life and death， funny or not funny。 And you could see， you know， he would add a comma right where it needed to be， or he would change a word around， and it was—
还有就是，我们谈到过这个几次，我们在后台最后一刻讨论过几次了，但我的确认为，他对抖包袱的时间掌握得极好，也知道如何写一个梗。我是说，我会收到他编辑过的梗，就是他将在白宫晚宴上要讲的。通常我们会最后再过一遍，比如周六晚宴当天的中午。他会再读一遍，亲自用笔做一些修改。而我最后要做的工作是，把这些修改处输入电脑，整理成最终的讲稿。这些编辑过的地方通常都很精细，基本上不写喜剧的人是做不到的。比如，大多数时候，说“这个，但是，那个”以及“这个，然而，那个”在演讲中没有什么不同。但对于梗而言，这直接关乎到它的生死，好笑还是不好笑。你可以看到，他会在需要的地方添加一个逗号，或者他会改变一个词之类的，就是…
AXELROD： Which he would do in his speeches as well [LITT： Right。]。 He had a great sense of musicality of how words played。
阿克塞尔罗德：他也会在修改演讲稿时做这些工作。[李特：没错。] 他有着良好的乐感，懂得文辞的韵律。
特别鸣谢Leon的英翻中以及字幕制作
向杨的微博：向杨Alan
微信公众号：xy88chicago
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